There’s an interesting blog post on the Thermoseal Group website, asking for opinions about the exchangeability of products deemed as ’similar’ being permitted in the WER scheme, so window companies and sealed unit suppliers are not bound to specific brands of a product.
You can leave your thoughts at:
http://www.thermosealgroup.com/blogs.cfm?theBlogID=B66D9A7F-15C5-F4C0-999A03944C8DBFDE
Tags: BFRC, thermoseal, thermoseal blog, window energy ratings scheme
Fair play RCG
I could not resist , but I guess you new that
Hi Kev
I added the post with you in mind. Thought about just emailing you with the link, as few others seem overly interested in the potential chaos that may be coming in the autumn
Matthew
We have applied to the BFRC to become Authorised Retailers and have found that to put our current approved windows with glass, which is also A rated, from another supplier is quite costly, especially when you consider the number of variants on offer. For now we will offer just one A rated option and although customers are asking for it, few local companies seem to offer it.
As an authorised Retailer the charges are less than for a fabricator to obtain the rating’s. As a retailer I understand each simulation would cost £199 which I think is very reasonable or for multiple simulations up to max of 10 £399.00. The registration fee is £75.00 until end of Feb when it goes up to £200.00. Annual audting fee is £250.00.
Not that expensive and it’s about time people who don’t fabricate take some of the costs on assosiated with quality standards like fabricators have had to do for years instead of piggy backing on fabricators standads.
Get your own qualifications
Just to add a thought into the mix. Given that the intention appears to be that Window Companies (Installers) will not be legally able to trade unless they have a BFRC rating for replacement work, and that rating is of course is explicit to a supplier and not a specification.
What happens if the IGU supplier or frame producer goes bust? The way the GGF appears to be spelling it out, everyone being supplied would also have to cease trading.
This situation also takes the day to day business making decisions from company owners and hands it to the GGF.
It gives the impression of an ill thought out scheme from people that do not understand the Fenestration Industry.
I can only see 1 page on that blog , do you know how to see more comments ?
Its ok now it scrolls down to view them all.
There do appear to be a few concerned people starting to realise the implications of the WER’s and the effects that are possible if using them as sole compliance criteria to the building regs , I still find it strange though, that the science and technical assumptions of the scheme are not and have not been stringently assessed by CLG or even independantly within the industry.
The WER scheme is wrong, it is fundamentally fudging the issue of improved insulation and is purely promoting old technology coatings , less reinforcing, higher glass areas (smaller frames) and low iron glass !!
I am sure that insulating spacers bars and argon gas (if you can keep it inside the unit) are of benefit, but generally, and it may be a coincidence, it very much appears to be a case of , ‘what can we do to ensure that we can still sell K !! ‘
If no-one in this industry can show the proof of the BFRC formula that that the annual solar gain during the UK heating season for ‘averaged orientations’ is 218.6 kw/sqmtr
Then the basis of the whole WER scheme must be in doubt .
Where does the magical climate data come from and does it even exist? the BFRC wont or can’t tell me, the CLG don’t appear to be clued up on this issue.
Can anyone else help out ?
It appears the WER / BFRC situation is causing major confusion and concern. I think it’s a subject I need to develop on this site.
By the way, suggest you reclick on the above link as the comments are building up on the Thermoseal blog.
Matthew
Matthew ,
I have indeed returned and cast some further thoughts onto the relatively stoney ground that is the window industry
, I think if I sow enough rantings some seeds may start to show themselves , but it is good to see people actually look past the end of their noses on this. It only really affects the domestic replacement industry , the commercial and new build boys and girls still get to think and are allowed to specify the glazing products they want or need for a specific job. The bigger domestic players will jump on the marketing bandwagon that WER’s offer , but the fragmented nature of the replacement domestic market sees smaller outfits more concerned with the day to day window fitting and feel very apathetic to the bigger industry picture. I think that the BFRC are relying on the individualistic nature of the replacement window industry and the relative lack of scrutiny that it offers , to just carry on selling meaningless certificates while hypocritically pretending to be saving the planet.
If you do a few searches you can find references to the fact that ‘professionals’ in insulating fenestration dismiss the WER’s completely.
Kev
I’ll be honest, at first I thought you might be a lone ‘rather obsessive’ voice on this subject.
But, it appears you are not alone in your concerns – far from it.
Matthew
Matthew
Once the ball gets rolling properly and there is a decent groundswell of objection I may become less ‘obsessive’
, In theory I think they may have a roll to play , but not in their current form.
But I have still to see any direct questions being asked of the derivation of the formula, we are starting the scheme from a position of bad science and that really is why the whole thing is going pearshaped.
Kev