Ultraframe Conservatory Roof video
For six months now, I’ve had conversations with representatives of Ultraframe suggesting they’re working on a video showing the relative strength of their roof system, compared to other conservatory roof systems on the market - Synseal (Global), K2, Aztec, Quantal, Eurocell etc.
Well, I found the video on YouTube this evening:
Fair play to Ultraframe - this is a really well made video, and a powerful marketing tool.
But, my concerns with this video are as follows:
Ultraframe - You show a roof system on your video which falls to pieces with the intensity of the weather test. You attempt to conceal the Roof System used for obvious reasons. But how can consumers and people from the industry trust that the tests were undertaken in a completely impartial way?
For example, how can we know whether the competitor roof shown was fitted correctly? How can we be sure that the roof was not tampered with. For example, if the polycarbonate sheets were cut a bit short in the competitor roof, you could imagine the polycarbonate would fly out as shown. Were there representatives from the competitor roof system company present to ensure fair play?
If not, how can consumers and the trade believe the Ultraframe Conservatory Roof system is the best on the market?
23 responses so far ↓
1 livefour2day // Nov 14, 2007 at 12:53 pm
Do you not think a company like Ultraframe would make sure legally the are covered before making statements like this?
2 livefour2day // Nov 14, 2007 at 12:57 pm
I have been told that Ultraframe paid a professional company of fitters to install all the roofs tested including Ultraframe, and they were not Ultraframe fitters.
3 Renegade Conservatory Guy // Nov 14, 2007 at 1:58 pm
I’m not sure, I’m just asking the question!
4 livefour2day // Nov 14, 2007 at 4:34 pm
Good question and web site and i agree but it has gone down very well with the Ultraframe customers as a sales tool.
5 Renegade Conservatory Guy // Nov 14, 2007 at 4:48 pm
It’s a very well made video, and I’m sure it will definitely help Ultraframe customers convert sales. I’m sure we both know which roof system it is that fails on the video, but in the hands of a salesman, it can be any roof system on the market…other than Ultraframe.
6 Renegade Conservatory Guy // Dec 5, 2007 at 6:56 pm
Please note - the original Ultraframe video I used on this post has been pulled. But this video by Maitland Conservatory Roofs an Ultraframe roof fabricator is the same video.
7 Just another guy // Dec 5, 2007 at 8:03 pm
“Do you not think a company like Ultraframe would make sure legally the are covered before making statements like this?”
hmmm…. Ultraframes past record of lawsuits doesn’t make good reading. Anyway, it was probably a K2 roof and definatly not a global one.
8 livefour2day // Dec 10, 2007 at 4:36 pm
look again not so sure
9 RealPVC // Dec 14, 2007 at 4:52 pm
We have been told they tested upto 7 other roof systems and they all failed. So i dont see how you can say not Global
10 Renegade Conservatory Guy // Dec 14, 2007 at 5:05 pm
OK, so I get back to my initial point. Ultraframe have tested 7 different conservatory roof systems. How can we be sure that the specialist company of fitters used understands exactly how to install 7 different roof systems efficiently? How can we be sure that fair play has been used? I personally have witnessed hundreds of Ultraframe roofs being installed and an equal number of Global roofs installed, and I have never witnessed from either system a problem on the scale of this video.
I have no experience of any of the other roof systems from an installation point of view, but if any system had the type of flaws suggested in the video, then the industry as a whole would know and the roof system company would fail as a business.
My point is that ALL major roof systems on the market today are fit for purpose, and to suggest that one system is fit for purpose and 7 others are not fit for purpose is clearly rubbish, and not good for the industry as a whole!
11 RealPVC // Dec 14, 2007 at 8:18 pm
This seems to be a one sided conversation towards what i think are pro global people on here, the Wintech Company employed specialist INDEPENDENT installers to install all of the roofs including Ultraframe to the instructions supplied with the roofs.
They were installed by professional installers independent this is what Wintech does.
Face up to it the other roofs don’t seem to be any where near the same league, look at it this way as with all things in life “You get what you pay for”. only today i saw a competitors roof on a elderly couples house sold as an Ultraframe roof when it wasn’t, it was a cheaper system, and what was really worrying is the glass roof has made the glazing bars deflect 70mm and the frames are bowing out by 25mm the roof has failed, and it was condemned on the spot by a structural engineer.
12 Renegade Conservatory Guy // Dec 14, 2007 at 9:11 pm
I’m sorry but I entirely disagree.
This is far from a one-sided conversation. Your position is clearly one-sided.
My position is as follows:
I have sold hundreds of Ultraframe roofs in the recent past, and hundreds of Synseal (Global) roofs. If either roof system is properly fitted and specified then both roof systems are fit for purpose.
Had Synseal produced a video suggesting other roof systems are not fit for purpose I would have taken exactly the same position.
I have to disagree with you that Ultraframe is a superior product, because ‘You get what you pay for’. We both know that the price point of the two roof systems are now very similar.
I would agree that it is out of order for a customer to be sold an Ultraframe roof and then be sold a different roof system. It would also be out of order for a Synseal roof to be sold to a customer, and then be supplied an Ultraframe roof.
A similar analogy would be a car showroom selling a BMW and then delivering an Audi, or vice versa.
My position is that Ultraframe is a very good roofing system which is fit for purpose, as is Synseal, Eurocell, GW Wendland, Quantal etc.
13 RealPVC // Dec 14, 2007 at 11:47 pm
but technically Ultraframe is in a different league as you will see in the coming new year, i have also looked at the Global roof and in my opinion its rubbish technically look at the eave system on global a bolt from the inside which relies on the plastic undercladding as part of its connection, look at the Ultraframe and K2 systems both have a bolt that points up and through Aluminium the bolts acts as a pin even without nuts on the bolts the bars can not slip the bolts prevent the bars from moving now the global bolt head is in the bar and passes through plastic with expansion and contraction over a period of time that nut will work loose then the bar will slip how is that on par with Ultraframe, the reason the roof in the film fails is due to the top cappings they are not strong enough to hold under pressure as shown the Ultraframe roof is the Only roof to have a twin wall top cap. Strange that global have now introduced an ali capping is it!!!
And last thing you go on about price driven market in this industry and yet you defend Synseal the very people that have driven the margins down in this industry.
Like I said very one sided.
14 Renegade Conservatory Guy // Dec 15, 2007 at 10:03 am
I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree.
The bolt you talk about on the Global roof is actually a USP - it makes it easier to fit the roof from inside. My experience in fitting Ultraframe roofs is that it is very fiddly tightening the two smaller bolts on the Ultraframe bars.
Ultraframe developed all the click lock technology which was fantastic - unfortunately, the system never took off - which is another story.
I think if you consider the development of the Synseal (Global) roof, you have to accept that it was developed by taking into account the good points and bad points of existing systems - such as Ultraframe or K2. You could argue that the bolt you mention is one such improvement.
Global roofs are not ‘rubbish’ and neither are Ultraframe roofs. They are the two leading conservatory roof systems on the market probably.
And, in respect to Synseal bringing down prices: At the time the Synseal Shield Roof system was launched, Ultraframe were making a 30% net profit - unheard of in our industry. Synseal produced a similar product but pitched the price at a rate which gave them a reasonable net margin. This was bound to be lower than Ultraframe. If Synseal produce a roof which is competitively priced and it sells - then this is healthy competition.
It looks to me Ultraframe are now fighting back - which is great news for healthy competition.
15 Jimp // Jan 3, 2008 at 10:43 am
I have also fitted both roof systems, I used to use Ultraframe but moved to Global about 2 years ago. Mostly because it is so much easier and quicker to install because of this bolting system.
Dont get me wrong the I made alot of money using the Ultraframe roof, but the core product hasnt moved on for 15 years.
I agree with RealPVC that supplying one and giving another is not good practice whichever way round it is.
But on a few technical points, if the conservatories used were relying on anything PVC to hold the corner joint together on a global roof that would explain why it falls apart - the fitters did not fit the steel corner cleat!
I bought a global ali top cap system 18 months ago, this is nothing new.
And on the point of top caps, do Ultraframe still do PVC top caps for woodgrain. I am still reglazing 10 year old jobs where they have warped in heat.
16 redroofingripper // Jan 4, 2008 at 9:43 am
Although i find all comments relatively interesting, i would like to make just a single point at this time. Having sold both the Ultraframe and Global roof to trade window companies, I would like to ask the question if the MD of each retail installation company was to install a conservatory on to the back of their own property, i am very confident as to the choice of product they would choose and i personally beleive the product would be sourced from Clitheroe!
17 Renegade Conservatory Guy // Jan 12, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Hi Jimp
Not sure if Ultraframe still uses the foiled uPVC top cappings. We, too, have experienced major problems with these warping.
I once asked one of the main guys at Ultraframe about these warping and pushing the end caps off, and was told that sometimes you do get a bit of ‘relaxation’ on woodgrain top caps!
18 Renegade Conservatory Guy // Jan 12, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Hi Redroofingripper
I think the MDs of most installation companies would go for the best deal on the roof!!
I have sold both systems, and would be happy to have both on my own house. For the record, I had an Ultraframe roof on my last house, and have a Global roof on my existing home - both of which have been problem free.
A similar question has always been whether owners of window companies would choose glass or poly for their own house. I have personally installed glass, but wished I had installed Smart Poly.
19 Jim Penman // Feb 6, 2008 at 10:50 pm
RCG
‘Relaxation’ this is’nt what they called it when I reported it to them over 10 years ago. A company that relies on thier position to not respond to so many customer complaints deserves what they have had handed to them.
Redroofingripper
The MD of a company that fits conservatories may well have a roof from Clitheroe fitted on their own house if it doesnt have a box gutter, if he is getting a serious ’showroom’ discount, and if it isnt woodgrain.
What is smartpoly???
20 Renegade Conservatory Guy // Feb 7, 2008 at 8:31 am
Our company sells a lot of Smart Poly - basically solar inserts fitted within the polycarb channels.
We find it works well for reflecting much of the heat in the summer, and cuts down on UV. You can also get it with an easy clean coating so we sell it as a compromise between a poly roof and glass.
21 Synseal fights back with conservatory roof test video! // Feb 19, 2008 at 7:26 pm
[…] a previous post I discussed an Ultraframe Roof Video which had been doing the rounds suggesting that only […]
22 Jimp // Feb 24, 2008 at 8:25 pm
If smart poly does everything you say it does, I would have thought it was a lot more popular than it is. Is it really expensive.
I got a letter directing me to the web site with this video on, the URL had my company name on it. (I am assuming it is from synseal and is a cheeky way of them making sure we look at the video). All the same I agree with you, it does appear to set the record straight.
Synseal also never show a competitor roof on their production. They just sell their plusses of their own roof. Unlike Ultraframe who just couldnt help themselves!
23 Renegade Conservatory Guy // Feb 24, 2008 at 9:49 pm
Not really, it works out about £15 per sq metre more than standard polycarbonate. Customers love it when it’s shown to them. I’m not sure why it is not more well known - I think it’s mainly down to the fact that Roof Fabricators have not caught onto the potential, or just want to sell standard poly or glass. All I can say is we sell it on 5-6 conservatories per week.
Yes, Synseal’s marketing campaign was very cheeky - very Nick Dutton! At first I thought the whole test had been organised just for our installation company, then I found out Synseal have created over 5000 such web pages - very clever.
I agree - the Synseal video does set the record straight, and they don’t stoop so low as to slag off the competition. Interestingly, I am yet to get a comment on my Synseal video post.
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