Clearly, the vast majority of people in the window and door industry support the Window Energy Rating Scheme. The feedback from the floor at GlassTalk certainly supported this with most installers suggesting they felt the scheme was an opportunity for the industry.
The WER ‘on the couch’ discussion tackled various questions people had, and Giles Willson put forward a very strong case for the scheme which was well supported from the floor.
One question remains unanswered though. Kevin Ahern from Osprey Windows has been asking for months for the BFRC to supply the scientific evidence for which the solar gain element of the scheme has been derived. I asked the question to Giles from the floor as to why he can’t give Kevin this information, but unfortunately there was no answer to this question.
After the event, Kevin and I chatted and we agreed that probably it was time to move on as the WER scheme is now written into law anyway.
However, it is clear that there is still a significant groundswell of people from the industry are suspicious of the solar gain element of the WER scheme. Here’s some of the comments on the GlassTalk website:
Roy Vassie:
I believe the show of hands from the floor clearly showed the majority are in favor of a rating system as it would clearly benefit all, but I think if you had asked for a show of hands asking ‘do you trust the current method of arriving at the ratings’ the result would have been a resounding NO as they are plainly not backed by clearly provable measurement criteria.
I think if that problem was resolved the vast majority would be 100% behind the scheme. The reason many currently would not be is because they are unconvinced that the statistics are honestly provable and believe there is a hidden agenda behind the method of calculating it.
Resolve that and there is no moral dilemma.
Terry Leach:
If there is scepticism about the tachnical data that has been provided then of course we should challenge the whole credibility of the scheme prior to its insception in October, once the scheme has begun and the general public start to raise issues about the credibility then we really will be up shit creek without a paddle, do we think that the BFRC will be arsed about any flak thats fired our way?
Adrian Green:
Come on guys, get a grip. I am just a small time timber producer who has always argued that WERs are purely for box tickers and salespeople. There is no doubt that standards will and have risen as a result, but to include solar gain in the calculation is as crazy as making a hole in the top of your A++ window, covering it with aluminium, and calling it a tricklevent!
For all the criticism to go away then surely the most sensible solution is for someone at the BFRC to supply the required information about the science behind the solar gain calculation to Kevin Ahern and the wider industry.
I already sell energy rated windows, and I believe that the window energy rating scheme is a far simpler way of demonstrating to consumers the comparative performance of various window systems. But as long as there is a major question mark over the science behind it, then it’s difficult for me to fully support the scheme.
Tags: BFRC, Energy Rated Windows, Kevin Ahern, Osprey Windows, WER scheme
Matthew
I think you have clearly summed up the direction of the debate that has been rumbling on since Glasstalk. From my contact with my customers throughout the country I believe the majority feel the same as you.
The WER scheme is plainly a good opportunity for the installers and fabricators to show compliance with the regulation & is a simple clear way that the general public can also use to understand the difference between products offered by different suppliers.
The but and it is a very big but, is that the people who have devised the method of measurement are still not (as you say) being open about the figures used, so the figures are not open to proper scrutiny THAT IS THE ISSUE, not if WERs are a good or bad thing.
Compare the situation to the motor industry issuing fuel consumption figures, there is a clearly defined method of measuring this, that is open to all who want to understand it. Because they have a legal obligation to provide those figures and explain how they are derived.
WHY SHOULD WE BE ANY DIFFERENT ?
Please BFRC just explain.
Although it would appear this view is not shared by all
http://ebm.cheetahmail.com/c/tag/hBMEjPJB7gc3YB8LShKI8Bc43ou/doc.html?
Hi Roy
Thanks for your comments.
Despite the lack of comments on this post I’m also confident that there are many WER sKeptics out there waiting for some sort of answer.
Matthew
I have to confess that I really never expected an answer , the BFRC don’t actually understand the formula they just sell it , it is becoming obvious that they don’t actually have a scheme either. they have had 4 years to attach a set of rules and protocols to accompany the formula which they could publish to the industry so that all could see the relevant criteria.
Unfortunately , becauase the formula is not based on the truth, it is proving very difficult to apply it and wrap a coherent energy rating system around it. Now it is about to get even more perverse because as companies struggle to get answers to perfectly legitimate questions there will come a time when they give up and make their own rules up.
I am also begining to think that the industry is not really bothered about cleaning up its own crap on this issue and fear someone will have to clean it up for us. That will be another dark day for us all , Is the deafening silence because most don’t understand the issues or are ignoring them already. It could also be down to an old boy network who know exactly what is going on but just don’t want to rock the boat
Read with interest again, further thoughts are about the installation and window boards and cavity closures used. Had the experience of see a very poorly fitted window recently, were the window board was replaced with a thin piece of facia, could feel the draught coming through the cavity and out underneath. What effect has that had to the A rated window fitted? So would like to know the effect of fitting the window frame on the inner, outer and across the reveals.
Richard ,
Unfortunately the installation aspects of energy rated windows are irrelevant, they are not covered by any scheme ,even Fensa ( egress and safety glass excepted).
More new builds are being given pressure tests to assess overall air leakage but that is done before completion, is demanded by building control and has no bearing on self certification schemes.
Hi All,
I agree that the issue of Solar gain, the calculations used to arrive at the WER and the supporting scientific evidence, needs to be nailed down and published. As we all know there are still many holes in the WER (frame extenders, georgians, leads, trickle vents) but in light of the recent article “National companies let the side down again”, should we not as an industry try to structure and clarify the WER as much as we can, to minimise any possible backlash of trying to mislead the public…. again?
The industry should do itself a favour answering the questions and not elicit mistrust through avoidance. We all agree that WERs are a good idea, so lets not slur its concept by leaving loose ends for journalists and informed consumers to find.
Annique
Well said !
At the end of the day the industry must challenge the figures, because if we dont we will all look pretty awful when some well informed customer or maybe an organisation like Which? takes a close look.