Fit the Best? – Everest TV campaign
It’s great to see Everest on TV with a new campaign pushing A-Rated Energy Efficient windows. The advert shows new Energy Rated windows fitted at the highest pub in Britain – Tan Hill Inn.
I must admit, it’s a very well produced advert which gets across the message, and I’m sure it will kick start a few competitors into developing energy rated windows. I’m also aware that this campaign along with the Safestyle-UK TV campaign is now starting to build public awareness of Energy Rated Windows.
Customers are now starting to ask ‘What rating is your window?’ And, this has to be a good thing.
The problem is, as I understand it, Everest are advertising an A-Rated window, and then selling a C-Rated Window. I’m happy for the guys from Everest to correct me on this, but the word on the street is that consumers are being told that an A-Rated window can be supplied, but that they’re a bit expensive!
Don’t get me wrong – a C-Rated window is still better than selling a window that merely complies with Part L. But why not just advertise a C-Rated window which is still classed as Energy Efficient, and can carry the Energy Saving Recommended logo? Why not just tell the truth?
Tags: Safestyle UK
It’s all to do with advertising standards. As they will tell you over and over again until you lose the will to live they’re the only ones who can legally use the words “Fit the Best ” in their adverts. If they didn’t wangle it the way they do and honestly admitted that you only get a C-rated window as standard they could be forced to stop using the strap line. “only Everest fit the Best”.
The funny thing is many customers have been persuaded to only have part of their house double glazed rather than get the whole house done with cheaper but inferior windows. Forgive me if I’m wrong but won’t the effect of double glazing be useless until all the windows are done. As I often point out to customers, not because I’m a greedy salesmen, it’s stupid to have double glazed windows and leave your old draughty wood doors in. It defeats the object of the excercise. A bit like if you had a car with no wheels and buying one at a time. No Mr.and Mrs. Prospect you won’t be able to drive your car until you’ve got all 4 wheels!
You should have bought a Robin Reliant . Or a motorbike . Or a unicycle.
“Here look at these lovely doors that look like Lego and are just moulded out of plastic” I say to them.
replacing your windows doesn’t really have an analogy with car wheels. The car doesn’t work without wheels! Your insulation will work better with each window you replace: the heat doesn’t run away from the insulated windows looking for the old single-glazed one and then form a queue to get out! Every square inch you insulate will improve it bit by bit.
Oh thats good to know. Can I have 2 square inches of your a-rated window please. By the time I’m 90 I might have managed to have the whole house done.
Standard Everest pvc-u window is ‘B’ rated and the upgrade costs about £40 per square metre since this also includes additional gasket/frame modifications to achieve ‘A’ rating. Most other companies only offer ‘B’ and ‘A’ as a cost upgrade.
paul.com – I believe you work/worked for anglian – who actually were trying to sell ‘A’ rated windows to customers BEFORE they even had them to offer. And who explain all about ‘ultra2′ windows and their efficiency and neglect to add that the customer is only likely to get this quality if they pay the first quoted price, any further discount end up meaning the customer will get another grade of windows with ‘non aesthetic alterations to the specification’ (clause 10 of your contract) – which may well be ‘C’ or worse (ie Excaliber grade).
Hi Peter
Thank you for your comments. That’s good news if Everest are now selling a B-Rated as standard, as it will help push the industry towards achieving higher standards in the future.
My point about advertising an A-rated window still applies though, as quoting £40 per sq.m extra for an A-Rated window is not really what the TV ad states. And, customers are unlikely to choose to go from B to A as the difference in energy efficiency is so little, but the cost so large.
RCG
RCG – quite agree, and I actually say to customers that the upgrade is not worth it unless they are particularly concerned. I guess after 20 odd years the ad needed to get across the improvements and expansion of the product range all in 20/30 seconds. Our literature is quite clear though as to the ‘B’ standard rating.
Hi Peter
I assume you must be a salesman for Everest. Well, good luck with selling ER windows and please feel free to come back and visit my humble blog whenever you like.
RCG
There’s nothing I despise more than an Everest man trying to build up his rip off company by trying to trash other companies and Anglian which is about all you can do.
If there is a clause in the Anglian contract it’s nothing more than the same sort of sales gimmick that Everest always use with the Immediate Order Discount. “I have a letter here from the Managing Director himself, Gary Risley that says I can only give you this discount on the night. It is all registered with Trading Standards and we’d get in serious trouble bla bla bla. Mr. and Mrs. Faukauhasen some Everest Salesmen were sacked because they came back and gave this extra 10 % discount after the day of the original quote.”
I need to find another website like this in a parellel universe where I’m allowed to swear because you know exactly what I want to say to you don’t you?
“I guess after 20 years…” The ad is a lie. I don’t care what’s in your literature.
I am in the process of purchasing double glazing and with the array of glaziers etc and information it is difficult to choose which one to opy for, any suggestions on what to look out for?
Thanks a million.
Hi sdl
Which area are you in and I may be able to advise.
RCG
Oh dear Paul. For anyone else reading this blog and groaning, just a few facts.
The Immediate Order Discount letter – yes its a sales gimmick in the same way as showhome promotions/phoning the manager etc. Most companies unfortunately have them, even more unfortunately many witless sales reps use them. I don’t.
However, clause 10 of the Anglian contract – note the actual legally binding document on which the sale is based – is a get out clause which allows the substitution of products as long as they look the same. With relevance to the blog, with Everest if you buy pvc-u casement windows from us you can be sure that they are ‘B’ rated, BS and BBA standards approved or exceeded without question-what we describe/show the customer is EXACTLY what they will have fitted. With clause 10, Anglian reserve the right to NOT fit units to the standard described/shown to the customer. I will only mention this to a customer if they have already contacted Anglian and/or received a quotation from them. I have a copy of their contract (given to me from an ex Anglian rep) which I can show to back this up.
We all have to make a living-I do it by being honest, giving customers only the facts I can independently verify, and a price free from sales gimmicks. I never ‘trash’ other companies, and I’m sorry if you feel I was by stating the facts I know. Surely this is better than the generic ‘tall tails’ the sales trainers regretably drum into new recruits.
Oh dear Peter this is so very tiresome. So it’s not Everest fault that it’s trainer’s drum in these sales gimmicks ? It’s because of the many witless sales agents that do what they’re taught to do and your not one of them , you’re honest and people can be assured that they’ll get a B grade window.
I never said you don’t have to make a living. Why do you think I’d think you don’t have to make a living? Do you think I don’t have to make a living?Do you think I’m telling everyone why Everest and Anglian are rubbish for fun?
Alot of people don’t have to make a living. Espescially if they can find enough mugs that’ll believe all the garbage Everest tells them.
Oh I understand it now. Everest Fit The “B”est. Not “A” like the mountain in their logo.
Paul, in many ways it sounds like we both hate the same parts of the glazing business. Perhaps I’ve not been in it as long as you were and still believe that I can do the job ‘my way’ rather than how Everest want me to!
I enjoyed some of my best years working for Everest. I could say unfortunately I burnt all my bridges but I deliberately burnt all my bridges and there is no way back for me.
There are alot of good things about Everest and it is true you can do things “your way”. As long as you get results you’ll be left alone. In sales you have to have an instinct for each customer and adapt to them anyway. What people forget and as a salesman you’re not allowed to say is how many customer’s are just as devious in their own way. They’ll say they’re going to sell their house soon or they’ve had a quote £5000 cheaper. If the glazing industry is notorious I think it’s only a reflection of the kind of the greedy society we live in and consumers have only got themselves to blame to a large extent.
I should make the most of your time at Everest because it’s not as easy to find other jobs in the double glazing industry anymore with all the closures.
At the end of the day “people by people” as they say and I belive when they buy their windows they’re buying the person that was punctual, well presented, professional(knowledgeable & well -trained) genuinely friendly etc.
I once went to sell a conservatory in Castleford and I was running a bit late and having difficulty finding the address. I thought to myself
” I don’t really care because I’ve been here so many times before and they always want to buy a conservatory for 4 to 5k!” . The customers placed an order with me because they said I’d bothered to show them a breakdown of the products involved, done a computer generated image and been very professional. They said the local companies turned up pointed out an area with their feet , had written a price on the back of a cig packet and dissappeared after 10mins. !
Good luck with your career.
Just been offered a job with everest start the training on Monday any advice Peter?
Hi Bob,
Go on the training – 4 days in a nice hotel with food and drink (some!) thrown in. Its a good course. Just don’t expect to be a millionaire in 6 months. If you are sensible and have some financial backing to ride out the lean months when you might not earn anything its a good job. Or if you are able to commit 100 hours a week playing a numbers game on getting self generated appointments on the door you could earn bundles. Most reps start off enthusiastic but the constant rejection and/or abuse when knocking on strangers doors can soon get very wearing unless you are particularly thick skinned! Expect to earn £15K if you are the soft sell type who wont take advantage of people (i.e selling on finance etc) but £30-40K if you are more hard nosed.
Hope this helps.
Hi Guys, just fell over this site and found this interesting thread.
The ‘A’ rated windows are the best thing the window industry has ever come up with. As it says on the label an ‘A’ rated window produces an average of 4 kWh/m2 over a year (that’s 4 kilo watts per hour for each square metre of window for a year). Given that the average house has around 17m2 of windows, then ‘A’ rated windows alone would produce 68 kw of home heating per hour. This is extremely impressive especially when you consider that the average gas boiler produces only around 30kw per hour. This of course means that once ‘A’ rated windows are installed the home owner can do away with their home heating altogether.
Now go back and read the small print, and you will find that no one can buy any rated window of any description. What is implied on the label is contradicted in the small print. Everest has got it wrong they cannot sell a ‘D’ window let alone an ‘A’ window. The window tested is a 1230 x 1480 single casement, and that is the only one with the rating, no other window can be offered with any rating. Then it also has to be installed on an elevation of the house that receives maximum daylight even in the winter months. Change any single parameter and the rating is gone.
The windows- rating is about misleading the public as to the benefit of glass. According to the way it works glass is a bigger contributor than a frame (so it’s better than solid 3 x 2 timber). Even with the fact that the frames usually have a greater square area than the glass in the average home installation, glass remains the greater contributor.
John,
Your comments are interesting – however the ratings are what they are from the Energy Saving Trust. They agreed the criteria and every company that goes for certification submits a unit to be tested under the same criteria (and yes I know that actually some of this is done’virtually’ without a physical unit). Your beef therefore is not with the companies who are simply working within the certification framework but with the Trust who came up with the criteria. If an ‘A’ rating is given to a unit of a certain specification then it IS ‘A’ rated for the purposes of comparison between companies and relative energy saving. Used in this way the ratings serve a useful purpose, although not perhaps as useful as they could be. What you say is ultimately true-but to adhere to your criteria would be highly impracticable since every house would need a specific survey done to calculate its actual rating before and after any window installation. The ratings system simply and easily allows customers to compare relative energy efficiency between different units on the market today.
Peter
The energy saving trust has nothing to do with it; they had nothing to do with the criteria. It was arrived independent of them.
There was no implied or otherwise assertion with regards the Testers, they are working to the rules of others.
To be clear WER is a brilliant marketing exercise, but that is the extent of it.
The implied benefit of 68kw/h of home heating for a whole house of windows, as the label indicates is clearly nonsense. Given that, is this not misleading the consumer?
Dr Robin Kent who came up with the calculations along with others, he had envisage a straight U vale calculation for a whole window, just as there is for every other part of a buildings structure. Just think people could buy a house and know what to expect as every part has similarly calculated for energy efficiency. The glass guys refused to join unless the glass element could be massaged. Robins’ thinking at that stage was that some testing was better than none and went along with it just to get the ball rolling. So the glass guys got their way, that doesn’t make it right. The wording of ‘whole window’ test is misleading, the glass for the U value part is still assumed to be the centre of a 1 meter square pane, not the whole U value of each pane. Yet the glass for the solar gain is for the whole of the 2 panes.
The Window industry has the capability to give specific U values for every window produced, meaning that the consumer could have actual figures. Not forgetting it is the customer that pays for the testing. However, our friendly glass suppliers have and effective lobby machine and so far have blocked the consumer being in position of being able to make real comparisons.
The point I was making about the small print that goes with the BFRC. The test is for the test window only, windows of a different configuration (openings, size and so on) cannot be rationally said to have the same performance. Once the percentage of glass to frame changes the performance of the whole window also changes. The small print from the BFRC is explicit; the figures can’t be applied to actual installations. Think about it, a window on the north elevation of a home cannot achieve the same as one on the south. The WER requires sunshine to massage the glass figures. How can this situation be of help to the consumer? On that basis alone window companies cannot sell any window that has a rating, that includes Everest.
Being practical for a moment, try and get a UK manufacturer to supply a window 1230 x 1380 in a fixed pane/side hung casement arrangement. You will find this impossible; That is also the test window configuration.
The shame is that the Window Industry as a whole is more than capable of being precise and open with the consumer, real ratings with real meaning. The comparison is often made with consumer white goods and their energy rating labelling, these are specific and actually mean what they say, the window industry is capably of the same honesty, the glass industry doesn’t like it.
e=mc²
I’ve just seen the new Everest TV Advert . What I think makes it so good is the fact that it has nothing to do with double glazing or conservatories. I’ve saved it to the top of my Double Glazing video page.
http://argu.weebly.com/dgrcg.html
Good windows but I don’t think much of the customer service if this is how they treat them.
Well ,first of all can i say that i love reading the messages on this SITE!!!!!……..
I think that glazing companies should master one thing ,should i say one product!!! ( ie ) SELL IT RIGHT ! FIT IT RIGHT !….
It seems to me that everest,have been trying to promote solar panels ,what a joke ,,,,, they cant even get the fitting right on the thing that made them what they were;…
The company has had more owners than secondhand clothes,how can anyone truly trust such a company????
A company that only has sub contract0rs ,and sales men that are all self employed ,lets not forget even its mangement are here today gone tomorrow.
Well i could just go on and on…………………
I will write again
More owners? But still the same company as registered at Companies House since its beginnings in the 60’s – so if we had given lifetime guarantees then, we would still be honouring them now, unlike most who regularly go bankrupt, rename and then ignore any previous obligations.
Sub contractors? No our fitters are self employed but work only for us (officially anyway!!) and to our standards. We do not use subcontractors who by definition work for anyone. You must be thinking of someone else…
Salemen self employed? Yes and proud of it. What’s your point? Just because we are self employed does not mean we will rip you off. We get paid only if we sell, and the easiest sale is to a happy previous customer – so again why would we rip you off?
Management here today..? My manager has been with the company over 20 years, his manager for 8. Most of the directors for 5 to 10years. Our conservatories manager for 28 years. Most companies would love to have this level of stability and experience at the top.
You obviously have some axe to grind – and fair enough if in the past we have let you down as a company – but PLEASE if you write again check your facts before the rant!
oh mmm ah! The AXE thing …
Well im sure most people can remember the news paper cuttings of the 90,s on everest self employed salesmen ripping off old ladies !!!!!
So you see its you that needs to check out the facts!! if you like i will even send you the 3650 complaints ,but no i cant be bothered ..
Best you check for your self!!!
bye for now.
Like I can remember newspaper cuttings about UFO’s, alien abductions and Freddy Starr eating a hamster!!
I’m sure every sales company will have some bad apples who will do anything for a quick buck. Everest are no more perfect than the next company in this respect.
I’ve seen many of these complaints-I do a lot of checking on the internet forums etc specifically to avoid doing myself the things people most complain about. However as RCG has recently pointed out, you do have to take a pinch of salt with many of them since they quite obviously originate from competitors. The home improvement business has never had a good reputation but in my, admittedly fairly limited experince (just over 2 years) Everest appear no worse than many, better than most and I certainly saw just as much ’sharp practice’ in my previous career in the NHS!
Peter,
I have just accepted a job as an everest salesman I would like to chat to you about a few things. Trying to work out what is the truth and what isnt. Get in touch.
Joe
I think its good everest are advertising energy efficient a rated windows on TV as it pushes the market forward. I am not sure that consumers won’t pay 40 sq m more for a rated as the average house only has approximately 10sq meters of glass.
Very surprised you haven’t got your facts right before sounding off. Everest fit B rated windows as standard. The required rating is E, with much of the industry fitting D rated windows.
I had everest around for a quote and A rated windows are an upgrade option at no extra cost.
The salesman was not pushy and i found them to have more product knowledge than the others..some didnt even know about A rated windows.
I find this site full of a lot of moaners with very little factual knowledge.
i have good news people everest have just announced their A rated windows are to be fitted as their standard windows at no extra cost…….. it just gets better and better, leaving the others in their wake.
oh yeah and the new advert starts boxing day and all through jan………. GOOD HUNTING!!!
Hi Rudi – I think there’s quite a few companies doing A-Rated as standard, but I think it’s a good move by Everest nevertheless.
RCG
Hey, I’m currently working for a good company that is fairy recession proof on a salary of £21,000. Everest have approached me to discuss the possibility of a sales role with them, which has attracted my intereset. I wouldn’t even think about moving to another company unless they were to at lease match my current salary even if the commision, bonuses etc are good. I’m guessing that they are going to offer a rubbish base salary? I phoned the recruitment guys and tried to discuss this with someone as I do not see the point of wasting my time attending the interview if the salary is rubbish, but they said that they could not give me this sort of information as it would be privately discussed during the interview. Also how safe do you guys reckon that a job like this is during these bad economic times? thanks
how can you offer a rated as standard when you get a large unit and it needs to be 6mm you cant a rated it
To be fair on Everest, they need to work within the system that has been put in place through the BFRC. There has to be a degree of flexibility in a situation such as 6mm.
RCG
A lot said with quite a bit negative about Everest for whom I sell. Surely the customer needs a well rounded package, after all, a chain is only as good as it’s weakest link. RCG you have been impartial even with some bitter and adverse views. We all need to make a living and I will continue to educate my clients as to thier options and suggest they fit the best for them. The Everest tv advertisments will stimulate interest and we can all benefit in this difficult economic climate.
Hi ‘Syndicate’
This is quite an old post, and obviously things have moved on since. The latest Everest TV ad – the lighthouse one – is excellent.
My views about Everest have mellowed, and out of all the ‘nationals’ there certainly seems to be less bad press, which suggests things must be pretty good there, considering the volumes they fit.
RCG
Hi,
Just been offered a job with Everest – if anyone here (Peter especially) would be able to spare me a couple of minutes I’d appreciate it a great deal.
Thanks!
Back in the 1980s I worked for Everest as an installer and only left the company when they were bought by a well known asset stripping outfit who shall remain nameless in this post.
During my 4 years with Everest I had been subject to such rigorous after installation inspections the like of which I had never encountered in any other company. Their insistence on everything being done”by the book” was a real pain in the backside, but there was no way of getting round it, you did the job right or you were suddenly unemployed. The product was produced to a standard that I had rarely seen in my 15 years previously in the window industry.
Since then they have changed hands a couple of times and from what I have seen of their more recent installations their standards have dropped considerably, to the point where I would say that just as good a window and installation could be had from countless other companies in the industry.
All the comments here seem to be centred around sales. Well, important as sales are to any company they are only a minute part of the total. Everything else has to be right or the reps will not be able to sell the product to any but the most gullible, so in that respect I doubt that Everest are any worse than the majority of fabricator/ installers who post here.
Sales people are notorious for exaggerating the product they are selling while denigrating the opposition thereby setting seeds of doubt in the minds of the consumer about the integrity of the industry as a whole.
The company I work for now advertises an A rated window but the punter will soon find this is an optional upgrade at considerably more cost, and as the reps are the usual smooth tongued rogues that you find in this industry they soon convince the prospect that the additional cost will never be recovered in their lifetime on energy saving alone.
The only time my company produces an A rated window is if it is a commercial contract where the specification calls for that rating.
I suppose that the bottom line is what the prospective customer is prepared to pay for something that he or she perceives as a necessity in order to maintain the value of their home.
Hi there, came across this article whilst doing a little research about Everest.
I’ve just had an initial interview with them and I don’t really know if its the right move or not.
I’ve been in a sales position before where its been 100% commission based, but the company didn’t really look after their field reps, and I hated the door to door aspect. Not so much the rejection, more that the days started at about 11am and finished at about 11pm… I do quite enjoy spending time with customers and I think I’d enjoy selling a the products. I guess I just hoped that the company provided most leads for the reps but it seems like that isn’t so much the case.
Does anyone have any advice on what to expect, how long it typically takes to earn money, even how long a typical day is? Or anything really that would help would be greatly appreciated.
If anyone has any questions or concerns about joining Everest, just pop an e-mail across to me and I will be happy to help.
1 thing I will say is it isn’t for everyone, it is a tough job at the beginning.
I started at the age of 19, which alot of people would say is too young. I did find it hard, but was eager for the money.
Now I am 22, I understand the job alot more. I own my own house, and as a representative am on target to earn around 80-100k this year. However I must say I work very hard for that amount of money.
As I have said in the job section, I am recruiting in the Mid Wales area, so if there is anything that anyone who has already been approached by Everest needs to ask, just send me an e-mail, and if anyone is interested in a fantastic oppourtunity in the Mid Wales area, please send me your CV, and I will be in touch.
Regards
Stewart
07837 518030
I was informed that Trading Standards took Everest to court for saying that ‘Everest is the best’. Apparently Trading Standards lost the case. Could I have details of this case please?
Many thaks.
Kate Beale.
Hello Kate,
Articles on the Sun 28/09/2005, “Everest Best”
and on: Daily Telegraph 28/09/2005 “No gain without pane is our motto”
It says on the Sun: the ASA (Advertising Standards Authority) has ruled: “The advertisers proved their standard products had a significant advantage above their competitors”
Regards,
Mr. A
Hello all !
I have just ordered replacement soffit’s, fascia’s and guttering system from Everest.
The product looked of a high quality on the model shown to me by the sales rep and I decided to go for what appears to be a good product at a reasonable price.
Anyone have any experience of their roofline systems ?
Regards
Glenn
I have been asked to come along for an interview to become a everest salesman. but i never realised how hated everest salesmen are hated? what have they done and why are they so disliked? doesnt make me want to be one of these people! is there any good ones out there?
Hi Ben
I’m not sure that the reputation of Everest sales staff is any different to that of any double glazing sales staff.
RCG
Just been offered Salesman job, but before i can go on training they want £150 for
sample case, what do you think?
Just nip to your chemists , you can get little clear pots to do your samples in , it seems a bit much asking £150 for a case to piss in !!