I’ve had one of my readers asking my advice, and to be honest, I’m no expert in this field, so wonder if you can help.
My main reason for contacting you today is that we have just had a situation where a customer has placed an order and we carried out a survey as normal. We have then 8 weeks later turned up as agreed to fit the job and found someone else has already fitted the work.
The customers claim they have cancelled the order which they didn’t but as time has gone by have bodged together a letter that they say was sent by first class post, not recorded delivery as we ask for.
We thought we had a claim for a solid court case based on all of our contracts and other signed documentation but it has been brought to our attention that under the:
Comsumer Protection Law – Cancellation of contacts made in the consumer home or place of work etc
States 2 in : Section 8 (5 ) A cancellation notice is sent by post is taken to have been served at the time of posting, whether or not it is actually received.
Im sure your aware of this but it just seems ludicrous that all of this protection is there for the consumer and nothing to protect the small businesses trying to make a living.
Can you shed any light on to this matter from past experiences or where we should look to turn.
I understand that this company has paid in the region of £3500 for the products, and £100 to the courts. The guy is obviously very frustrated that in this instance the law does not protect small businesses.
Does anybody have any constructive advice they can offer?
Tags: double glazing contracts
I would have thought that they would have to prove that they sent the letter. Otherwise the whole law would be ridiculous – anyone would be able to say they sent a letter.
From my understanding of contract law, Section 8 (5) is part of a claim of this nature but the defendant would have to provide proof (usually in the form of receipt of postage) to be able to backup their claim that cancellation has been posted as per Consumer Protection Law.
I would consult the Consumer Advice Bureau or a legal advisor as they would be able to clarify this information
You’ve given Tony a big link there Matthew
I’m surprised he’s not first to post..
We have a 7 day cooling off period. If those 7 days pass then it’s tough, too late to cancel.
We had a situation where a customer had signed a contract for us to a conservatory, but the customer she would let us know when she wanted the work to start. She eventually contacted us about 18 months later, but was asking us to reduce the price of the conservatory or she would go elsewhere. She seemed to forget that she had signed a contract of agreement, at the agreed price. She denied otherwise and threatened to go to court!! We couldn’t be bothered with the hassle so we just let it go and she got another company in to do the work.
There are absolutely no rules to protect companies from those sorts of situations. These things aren’t worth going to court for. It’s too exhaustive, and just simply not worth it.
30 years in this industry has taught me that you are usually in a no win situation given it is never about the rights or wrongs but how much time and resources you want to throw at something like this for potentially no result because even if you get judgement in your favour enforcement is whole new challenge.
I may be wrong but I’m suspecting a substantial deposit was not taken. The customers cancellation would have been more direct given the fear of losing a substantial some of money but may also have discouraged them going elsewhere in the first place?
For me deposits are not just about cash flow but they do weed out rogue or lazy sales people and consolidate the sale.
My presentation has always incuded explaining the benefits of paying deposits by credit card and the protection the consumer credit act affords. The result is usually complete acceptance of deposits of 20% and the bonus that I am trying to look after the customers interests.
Not very helpful I know to solve your current problem but may be worth a thought going forward?
Accept your losses now before you start making rich solicitors even richer….
If those costs are to be believed I reckon this must be a conservatory?…I would suggest you contact your local paper and tell them your story and look for a school, hospice, hospital etc…that you could fit the products at…
Not an entirely altrusitic act as you will want to enjoy the PR but if you get lemons then make lemonade….
Anthony – I’m not sure if its windows or a conservatory, but I like your idea of turning a negative into a positive
hi, personally speaking if i was to do a deal which was booked for 8 weeks away, i would confirm fitting 10 days prior to installation date i.e before frames manufactured , ordered etc..
I have not been in a position yet where i am 8 weeks ahead lol but as a small business i would have to confirm b4 manufacture as i am always wary of this happening or someone dying or marital break up etc..
Afterall 2 months is a long time , cut your losses and get on with the next one ..
I am fortunate to have seen most situations when it was someone elses money , but genuinely i could weep for the guy who is lumbered with a £3500 loss to his company …
Just come to me when , i was at my old company 10 years ago we had a job where a small woodgrain conny was made and someone blew us out cant remember all the ins and outs as it was another reps job.
What my boss did tho was set up a competition in the local paper where they had to collect 4 tokens (weekly) and bring them to our office once collected (post not allowed) when conny was won we belled all entrants details and offered them discount for entering , i would be lying if i said we mopped loads of bizz up , but i do recollect we got some bizz and the gaffer was pleased with the free press.
As other chap said get a posotive out of a negative , i just hope its a conny and not windows………..
Where is the rogue customer web page, put them on it and move on, if you go to court, you most likely would not win, as said before, the law is loaded in the customers favour and even if you did win, it is not against the law to owe money in this land of ours, so if they don’t pay, you are stuffed. Let their tyres down.
Do not any of the trade organizations that always seem to be touting for additional members, offer a legal service- and would be prepared to fight for a member in Court?
If so then to my mind this is one such area where the financial clout of a belonging to trade body should reap real rewards, not just having a nice sticker to put on the side of your van and headed paper.
My understanding is that this only applies if they can provide a proof of posting (from the post office) inside of the statutory cooling off period. As i know that trading standards pushed for the wording change as companies were stating that they had not received any cancellation notification or that it had been received late and therefore the customer had no right to cancel. But as far as i know without a proof of posting it won’t stand up in a court of law !
Also, am I right in assuming that if a customer were to make arrangements and come to sign a contract in a showroom / work premises, there is no cooling off period in any event?
I believe they changed the law in 2008 to state that all customers must have 7 day cancellation rights whether they agree a contract in their own home, work or in a showroom!
Also all contracts must be dated and should have this new cancellation term added to their contract or the contract technically is not legally binding.
I Had this issue myself with trading standards in Bristol about a year and a half ago when the son of a existing customer of ours came home from afghanistan and wasn’t happy about his mum purchasing another door from us. He didn’t actually try and cancel the contract he just kept putting off the survey and then eventually he agreed to the survey appointment. When i got there to do the Survey, a Bristol Trading Standards officer was there and i had a very infomative chat with her. The son of my customer informed me that although his mum had ordered a new door (and by the way was over the moon with our previous work) she hadn’t discussed it with him and he wasn’t happy. When i informed him that although i was happy not to proceed with the contract legally as his mum had contacted us and asked for the quote their was no cancellation rights. I was then informed by the Trading Standards officer that this was no longer the case and made aware of all the new changes. The biggest one in my case being dates as when i got back to our office over 80% of our awaiting installation contracts were undated. It scared the pants off me !
Nevertheless it all went ok but my understanding is that there is now no such thing as on trade contracts like the old days. Although to be fair the main people who loved that type of thing were the sharks !! Just as well most of them have gone off into new sales waters elsewhere as they think there’s no longer enough fish for them. There’s always a positive to every negative
The bottom line is our trade has to be careful, because the law is not on our side, and if its is it costs us more than the Job we have quoted. The best thing to do is close the sale, and
be in regular contact with the Customer assure them whats happening. Deposit is a must as we are living in a world where the WORD doesn’t mean anything. Most importantly the business climate we are in we have to be strict, be willing to learn and put in practice if we don’t it will be game over.
HI ITS DEREK FROM DMF DUBLIN
I SENT A MAIL SEVERAL WEEKS AGO ASKING FOR SOME HELP IN RELATION TO KOMM
58MM GOLD. I SUPPLY TRADE OVER HERE AND RUMOUR MILL FROM UK SAYS SYSTEM
WILL BE GONE BY END SEPT,MY SUPPLIER SAYS NOT TRUE!! CAN ANYONE HELP.
CAN RENAGADE GUY REPLY WITH ANY HELPFULL COMMENTS WERE HAVING IT TOUGH
OVER HERE TOO!!
MANY THANKS
DEREK LYNCH D.M.F.
Hi Derek
Sorry, forgot to reply to you. I’ll send a message now.
Matthew