When I travel around the country talking to potential dealers, I often get frustrated with how unprofessional many of them are. I see countless things that they are doing wrong.
Here’s five of them:
1. Price jobs on the night
I understand that on certain occasions a job may be more complicated than usual. Maybe, there are unusual building requirements. Maybe the customer requires pink frames with yellow sashes and it’s just not that easy to price up.
But, in the vast majority of instances, a well constructed price list is sufficient to provide reasonably accurate prices. I can never understand why a salesman would build up desire in a customer, and then leave the customer to post a quote on. I realise it works for some salesmen if they are skilled at keeping in touch with their customers or in setting up a follow up meeting. However, on the whole, the better conversion rates are achieved by sales staff who price there and then.
Normally our industry is renowned for the ‘hard sell’ but I regularly see instances of the exact opposite. Not pricing on the night is leaving the job open for competitors to steal the work with a more sophisticated sales pitch. People don’t like pushy, but they do like to see someone keen for the work, so give your best price and ask for the work!
2. Offer Finance
Following on from the above. These are challenging times, and borrowing money from banks and building societies is not as easy as it used to be.
By not having a facility where you can help potential customers with a finance solution if they need it is just doesn’t make sense. I’m not saying that you should be pushing finance on every customer, as it would in most instances be inappropriate, but it’s a very handy sales tool.
3. Advertise in the right place
If I was running a window company I would not advertise in free newspapers. What’s the point? All the cheap competitors advertise there, so why get your company caught up in fighting for work on price. Also, newspapers are a dying advertising medium.
Likewise, the Yellow Pages and Thomson local Directories are being used less and less. People go online instead. By all means have a token advert for people looking for you, but I wouldn’t waste money here myself.
Another good place to waste money is advertising on the radio. It might be good for building brand awareness if you’ve got spare advertising budget, but if you need leads now, then I don’t think radio is the way forward.
I’ve made all these mistakes myself, and am convinced that there are far more effective ways to advertise.
4. Incentivise staff
I regularly witness installation companies grumbling about employed fitters taking 3-5 days to install standard conservatories. It’s a great selling point stating that all the guys are on the books, but the reality is that the best fitters are self employed.
The same applies to sales staff. The very best sales professionals are commission based, and need to sell to generate a reasonable income. They don’t necessarily have to be commission only, but a degree of commission or bonus as part of the package will certainly encourage a sales person to work harder.
For an installation company, the ability to pay sales staff and fitters only when they perform well allows for the peaks and troughs of consumer demand. Having too many fixed overhead staff does not suit this industry.
5. Create the right image
I hate to see fitters with silicone all over their work clothes, tattoos and piercings. It sends out the wrong message. I also hate to see scruffy, dirty vans. Fitters are representing the company and allowing them to turn up looking like a scarecrow is not good business sense.
Likewise, sales staff need to create the right image at the point of sale. For me, a balance between smart and casual works best. Having sales staff turning up in sports cars with Armani suits is not the way to go as consumers automatically assume they’re going to be ripped off. But you also don’t want a sales team driving around in bangers, and dressed too casual.
Tags: advertising in newspapers, conservatory finance, conservatory fitters, conservatory quotes, conservatory sales staff, double glazing finance, Double Glazing Fitters, double glazing quotes, double glazing salesmen, thomson directory, window fitters, yellow pages
Totally agree.
I give a price on the first visit followed be an email with the quote in writing and drawings of the windows/conservatory the same day (always get email address) it gives you 24 hour contact.
Customers are pleased with the fast response and 9 times out of 10 email back.
with a conversion of 1 in 3 I works good for me.
Steve.
Very ‘old skool’ RCG – whilst I fully endorse a formula for salepeople to follow, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
I would certainly price condition customers on an initial visit, though we find inviting customers to one of our showrooms to discuss their proposals sucessfull. Simple jobs/add-ons would be priced and contract sealed there and then, normally.
The key thing is to continual any engagement with prospects, building relationships and credibilty then closing as an when the timing is right.
Steve
Sounds like your approach is very good. I’m not saying you’ve got to hang around until you either get the job, or blow it because you’re too pushy. I know one salesman who follows up in a similar way, by using email to send drawings and quote through, and including further sales references. He’s converted at close to 60% over the last few years, when rarely selling on the night.
Edward – I’m not necessarily saying ’selling’ on the night, more ‘pricing’ on the night. I agree that there are many ways to skin a cat. What I find most frustrating is when I hear of salesmen spending too little time with a customer, then posting a quote on, and then not following up.
Believe me, there are loads of lazy salesmen out there. I would judge a successful salesman who has been supplied with all the right selling tools to convert at 50%. Any less than this needs attention.
RCG
I don’t think it is old school to ask for the business on the night but as suggested it really all depends on the particular circumstance, the problem is if you let it become the norm that you don’t price and sell on the night sales people will convince themselves that the situation was never right to close.
I believe that applies to conservatories as well as windows, with the proper software and a portable printer you can print out drawings and a full spec there and then and that really does impress the customer.
Often the customers who have the disposable income or cash in the bank are the busiest people and they appreciate being in the position to make a quick decision, if a sales person can inspire enough confidence then, given all the right reasons, a percentage of customers will make a decision on the night.
By the same token many people will never make a decision on the night and if you push too hard you will alienate them.
Regarding the sales people mentioned above who never price on the night and only
e-mail quotes, perhaps their conversion rate although good at 60% might be even better if they sometimes asked for the business on the night.
I expect that all of the people commenting above are successful and very experienced and probably motivated enough to make the most of every lead they get, whether by trying to close on the night or by sending quotes and following up professionally, a company policy however must be based on the average sales person and I can’t help but agree with RCG’s point, why spend a couple of hours building up a customers desire and then not asking the question, you might just be in danger that they say yes.
I also understand that if you have nice showroom then it can be professional and beneficial to invite customers to it and make your proposal there in a conducive environment, what I would say to that is if the right rep goes in after you and the customer is the type who will make a decision on the night they might never get to your showroom.
We in the industry know that the average quality and the aesthetics of extrusions today make it more difficult for the public to discern between one product and the other, we can therefore be lured into thinking customers think the same, the truth is that many customers I visit who have had a couple of quotes have never had a window or conservatory roof demonstrated to them, they have had a rep turn up take a few details and say they will get a quote in the post or e-mailed to them, when I then take time to listen to them and go into more depth and show them product they really appreciate it.
I am not saying this to say I am a great sales person but just to demonstrate RCG’s point that sales people can become lazy if allowed. It is easy to convince ourselves that customers don’t want us to spend a lot of time in their house but it can be the sales person looking for an easy life.
I hope all that didn’t sound like me trying to teach my granny to suck eggs but I find myself sometimes slipping into the easy life syndrome and I know my conversion rates suffer when I do.
Andy
Andy
I think you’re making the point far more articulately than I did.
A good example is we had a salesman who worked for our company for years. Being a member of the family, we allowed him privileges we wouldn’t ordinarily allow.
Year on year his conversion rate was 30-35%. He worked 15-20 appointments per week for at least 10 years, while we had other salespeople over the same period converting at 50% plus. He never embraced technology, or new thinking. It was a struggle to get him to carry samples etc etc.
We replaced him last year with a younger, more dynamic salesperson who now converts at 60% (or thereabouts) and shared a few leads with the rest of the sales team. 15-20 leads is too much for any individual to work. Crucially, we get better margin on these sales, as the other guy was just giving out quotes, and not up selling the advantages of buying from the company.
We calculated we had lost hundreds of thousands of pounds over the years delaying making the inevitable decision.
RCG
I need to sharpen up : )
mr A may buy on the night mr B may not buy on the night (doris stokes i aint and neither are you but my philosophy has always been ) “if you dont ask you dont get” times many i have got the deal because someone is dithering with a price (we all know hours can cost you a deal) and if i price and i get a couple of rejections i back off and keep in touch, best of all worlds.i personally cant imagine not asking for the business as this is what what i think makes me a salesman. i always remember what i was taught. “you dont start selling until you get your first objection and if you are in front of that person you can get over 95% of them over the phone very tricky. as what someone pointed out earlier DESIRE has dwained and ultimately so has my profit/commission. i a lot of time if i am honest sell on price but 10% of something is better than 40% of nothing , and if i can get 10% on the spot it leaves me free for the next one (just my opinion) 20 years in the game and still as hungry as when i first started…..lee
1
I have to say I have noticed a shift in the way the public purchase now, don’t get me wrong I don’t go out as often as I should as I do like to keep in touch with what’s going on out there, But I do find that people seem to be having alot more quotes!!! than they used too.
What I tend to find makes the difference for me when I do get to go out is the lack of knowledge of Sales Guys, they don’t know their products well enough and they don’t know there competitors product, all those many years ago when I started out in Sales it was all about product knowledge, in 90% of the sales I have never asked for the order people just say they are happy with that and I do convert at a very high rate.
Being an adviser you don’t fall into the same category as a sales guy, you are giving real genuine advice proving your knowledge, I have even advised people not to buy upvc as it wouldn’t suit there property, if you’ve got the customers Ideal in mind and not interested in always getting what you want out of it you will naturally sell. I’ve only ever had to ask for the order on a handful of occasions.
Generally I don’t convert on the night. generally I state ” It’s better to make the right decision than a fast decision.” Dot the I’s and cross the T’s and you will naturally sell plus your enjoyment of the process will massively increase.
tell you lads, i work as a salesman, i always ask on the night, i end up converting 60 – 70%, but that still is not good enough for my so called boss. Peoples habits have changed, they get more than one quote, and if they do, how can you close there and then. I find most people are more receptive if you ask once or twice, and then back off. He doesnt see it that way, “if you dont close there and then, youve failed”……well not in todays market place, people are wise to the old tricks of closing(if i can call them that)
re marks last reply- sounds like my old boss ,but you and i both know if you are closing 6-7 out of ten then you are in what i would say in the top 10% of closers . i sussed(very early on) that if my old boss praised me for converting 6-7 out of 10 he would probably think i would ease off , but as a greedy man as most of us are we put our own pressure on as our income depends on it. Anyone can be a good closer in the classroom , its out there what matters personally if i get 6-7 out of 10 i am pleased with that as its a numbers game as we all know. in 20 years and working with around 100 salesman over that time i have never met anyone with a consistent year on year 80-90% strike rate i think he only exists in the classroom ….
Calm down guys, if you are genuinely closing 60% – 7o% lead to sales then nobody is really going to complain about that, your boss might tell you he wants more but believe me if you are a top closer then you can ply your trade with any company and you are in control not your boss.
I have to say at this point however that most sales people and their managers/bosses will disagree on conversion rates i.e. sales people discount single sits or “didn’t pitch because the customer wouldn’t let me measure up” etc, managers include these leads and sales people discount them.
Sales people also usually believe that their sales manager favours other sales people for various reasons i.e. “my manager feels threatened by me” or “my manager gives me the tougher leads because he knows I can handle them”.
Trust me guys, if I have a sales person who is converting at 60% – 70%, I will leave personality aside and feed that rep with as many qualified, quality leads as possible and give the tougher leads (assuming I can spot a tough or easy lead) to the poorer closer.
If you guys are closing at the level you say you are and pricing a good percentage of jobs on the night and asking for the business, then the original point raised by RCG was not directed at you, it was directed at the companies that go out to see potential customers, measure up, perhaps talk to them about the quality of their windows/conservatories, typically, “We won’t be the cheapest because we only use quality products blah! blah! blah!…..” and then send them a quote and expect to get their business without following up in a professional manner.
I have ranted enough now!
Andy
I agree 60 – 70% is a great closing rate providing you are counting all leads, I’ve got a sales guy that says regularly I’ve only missed two this week out of the saleable ones.
And if a salesman doesn’t sell they never say it was because I wasn’t good enough or I had a lack of knowledge, it’s always your price is too high, they want more quotes, they’re not going to buy from anyone.
With reference to conversion rates I sell in the 70% mark when my sales guys now this they say “You cherry picked them” what they don’t know is I just pick one at random and go on it.
You can’t train someone to close if it’s not in their nature it’s more difficult than people think, but you can train people to be a fantastic adviser who still converts consistently, people love to buy but hate being sold too… Site survey / Listen / Advise / Offer Solution / Provide options and choices / Ask for the order. (If you need to). Always provide the solution to the problem it’s pointless prattling on about security if they are really interested in being green… or viser versa…. “What got you thinking about the idea of chages your windows Mrs …. ”
Oh and one 80% consistently that I no of was Paul Clifton however it was many years ago and some may say he wouldn’t be able to do the same now..
Sorry that probably turned into a teaching people to suck eggs thing, but I think people get the idea.
For sales training contact me on www. Imaknowitallwhenitcomestoselling.com
I sell timber conservatories for Amdega. . always 2 visits, price on the 2nd visit. I convert at 20%
I sell kitchens for Moben. . I sell on the first visit (if the customers dont buy on the first visit they never buy from me) I convert at 50%.
I sell for a local upvc company. . If the appointment is made in the showroom, I will price in the house and take the order. If the appointment is made on the phone I dont price in the house, I invite the customer back to the showroom to recieve their price and I then ask for the order. I convert at 80%.
The above conversion rates are based on all the leads/ bits of paper the companies give me, not just the pick ups.
I am commission only and would never accept a basic salary from any company. I earn in excess of six figures every year. The companies I work for are delighted with the return I give them and they have absolutely no problem with a self employed designer working for other companies.
The biggest problem with the upvc window and conservatory industry is that the owners treat their self employed designers like employed staff and expect them to be able to scratch a living. There is a fear/expectancy from employers that a designer will take their lead and sell it for another company. If you have self employed designers, my advice is to treat them as a consultant, if you want them on a self employed basis then accept that you dont own them and you should have no problem with them working for others. A professional sales designer is interested in absolutely one thing, making a sale and getting paid for it. Remember this, successfull reps need to be sitting 15 leads every week, this keeps them repetitive and in the zone, they will sell lots and earn lots, a fabulous Win Win scenario. If you can’t provide them with 15 leads a week, then share your designer with another company, it will improve your companies conversion rates and profit margins, guaranteed.
My thanks to the Renegade Conservatory Guy for this fabulous site. . .I hope the site stays alive for many years to come. Good luck.
Ron,
Whereabouts are you based?
We are looking for a self-employed designer and could add some high value products to your existing portfolio.
Looking forward to speaking to you.
Regards,
Stuart Young
Ron: I think you have carved out a bit of a niche for yourself with three products which don’t conflict. You obviously have the ability to wear different hats in different situations and I don’t think there are many sales people out there that have the discipline to do that successfully.
I don’t understand how you can cover 15 such diverse leads every week especially when you are working for Amdega and I guess therefore doing quite a bit of travelling, same with Moben to a lesser degree.
Let us assume you take one day a week off (maybe not), you are converting at 20% for Amdega with 2 sits each lead so selling 1:5, lets say they are giving you 4 leads per week which means 8 visits probably travelling 50 miles at least per sit, that has got to use up over 50% of your week, you are therefore probably making 1 sale per fortnight for Amdega and earning I guess £2000.00 on average.(£1000.00 per week not bad).
Lets then take Moben, say they are giving you 6 leads per week and you are converting at 50% all pitched on the night with an average order value of say £8000.00, lets say you are earning £1500.00 per week from this source, we are at £100000.00 per year now, makes sense so far and that must use up another 30% of your week.
Then take the local company selling PVC-u conservatories with an 80% conversion rate, I guess they must be giving you 6 leads per week, some closed on the night and some back at the show room, lets say the average order value is £10000.00 with 4 sales per week, that should give you another £3000.00 on top of the previous £2500.00 making £5.5k per week.
Even with 12 weeks holiday then you can earn £200000.00 per year, what I am struggling with is working with 2 nationals with the mileage you have to put in, 2 sits for Amdega, 1 sit with Moben plus a combination of 1 & 2 sits with the local company means around 22 visits/showroom visits at lets say 2 hours each visit plus travelling time and then arranging all of those appointments into times that suit both customers and you, I have great admiration for you, your energy and time management.
All of the above doesn’t take into account preparing quotes and paper work, I would love to spend a week in your shoes to see if I could cope.
The other minor point is that if I had a salesman closing consistently at 80%, I would make sure I had enough leads to feed him locally and he wouldn’t need to do the traveling with national companies.
I might be way off the mark here with my implied doubts but I am sure you will put me right.
Regards
Andy
For the record – I’m enjoying the threads on this post. Keep them coming
RCG, I think you should open a new outlet where Ron lives and give him a job
Andy
RCG: On a different subject have you seen all the stuff on Youtube about lock bumping and cylinder snapping, I uploaded one myself, send the link to you if you like.
Andy
Andy – I’ve seen all sorts of crap on Youtube about lock bumping etc. To be honest, I’ve avoided the subject recently due to all the geeks and criminals interested in the subject.
Although, if you’ve got something interesting please email it to me
Hi Andy,
Im a size 38 inch waist and have a 29inch inside leg measurement!! I will however tell you I’m like a teacher, I never work when the kids are off.
Listen, the reason for my post was in response to RCG and the other threads. I was really just trying to explain to the guys running the Upvc companys that your reps need to be working leads consistently. They will improve their conversion and profitability through consistently doing the same thing over and over again. If you cannot keep them busy, allow and encourage them to work for other companies.
Another way to improve your conversions etc is to take a leaf out of the time share world. This only works if you have a showroom and should be considered by companies with a low conversion rate.
Employ a very professional and well spoken person (recent graduate or recently made redundent professional) to cover the showroom duties and do the initial visits. Their sole job is to establish what the customer wants, do a site survey and make a friend. Having done this they then re-appoint with the customer to meet back at the showroom to again view the products and recieve the price.
You then have a commission only, exceptional closer/rep sit in on this visit with your employee and they will close the sale. Job done.
Stuart,
I’m based in Suffolk. If you ask the RCG to send you my email address privately you can get in touch with me that way.
Ron
Hi Ron
I appreciate and agree with the point about keeping your reps busy, don’t know if too many company owners would be happy with their reps (self employed or not) working for potential competitors as it establishes a dangerous president, as I said earlier you are probably an exception to the rule.
I also understand what you say about the time share model and if you are currently working that system successfully then who am I to doubt it, my instinct though is having had one person establish empathy and trust with a customer and then introducing a closer would seem to me to be unnecessary, why not teach the person who has done most of the work to close the deal instead of involving another.
I understand the theory of higher authority closing as used by time share and also in car sales (called the Pendal system), I think the public have moved on and are much wiser than when these systems were at their most successful.
(I am based in Colchester Stuart…Andy)
I didn’t get the waist size and inside leg measurement Ron, sorry if I am being thick.
Regards
Andy